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Author Topic: PC Recording in Linux  (Read 5469 times)
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Norio
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« on: May 23, 2008, 04:06:19 pm »

So this whole Guitar Idol 2008 thing got me motivated to record myself.  I know I won't win but it was the inspiration I needed to take my finger out my bum and give this recording stuff a proper college try.

So I grabbed my Roland 30 + Francis' Ibanez (that I'm borrowing until I can afford to buy it Tongue) and headed to my laptop in the lounge.  And then the fun began.

Audacity is a pretty decent program so I decided to give it a go.  It's easy enough to import a backing track, add another track, hit record and just jam.  Much like the BR600 in ease of use but without the drums and maybe other stuff I'm too dof to miss Tongue

Problem comes in that that mic-in on my laptop that I was using to record through is crap.  I've read on some Linux forums now that it's "too sensitive" for the output that would be coming from my amp.  So here I sit with a recording that has loud, blunt, bad guitar playing all over it Tongue

I tried all sorts of things to lower the input level of the mic but it just didn't work.  I've never tried this in Windows so I have no idea if it's a Linux problem or if there really is an issue with recording using a laptop mic-jack goodie.

In my naivety, I decided to give Ardour a shot.  It's apparently much better recording software and, as soon as I opened it, I could see why -- it's COMPLEX!  I eventually figured out the basics (add track, select input, arm track, record)

But the same problem was there.

What have I learned?  That I should probably get a decent external sound card if I want to record on this laptop, using a direct line from my amp.  Oh and Ardour is AWESOME but very complex and will probably take me the better part of five years to learn to use Tongue

I don't have much dosh to be spending right now so that probably marks the end of my foray into recording for a little while but I'm hoping that this post will inspire someone to download a free copy of Ardour (not sure if it's available for Windows) and give it a go.  They say it's designed to be used by pros so my appeal goes out to Alan to try it and give us some feedback ;D

Well, that was fun.  Back to work now Wink

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« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2008, 05:06:47 pm »

There's a huge difference in outputs between mic and line level. Doesn't the laptop have a "line in"? If not, you could also try something novel, like a mic into the mic input  ;D
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Alan Ratcliffe
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« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2008, 05:10:46 pm »

About Ardour - I don't have a Nix box. So I can't try it out.
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2008, 06:29:24 pm »

Quote
What have I learned?  That I should probably get a decent external sound card if I want to record on this laptop, using a direct line from my amp.

Exactly right! - But in the meantime try find the control panel for your sound card (I have no idea where it is located in linux) there should be a slider to control the input volume from the mic port, often there  is a micg ain booster that can be disabled.

When and if you get your soundcard under control you will encounter latency problems. You play a note, go make a cup of tea while the soundcard converts the signal from A to D and back again. You could give up trying hear what you playing through the Laptop's tiny speakers but the same Mr Latency will get you when you wonder why what you played is not quite in sync to the backtrack. You could ofcourse drag your guitar track 20 to 100 ms back until it sort of sounds in sync with the backtrack or you can try a GNU software utility called Asio4all which will improve but not illiminate the latency issues on your laptop soundcard - goodluck for GI 2008

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René Avenant
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Norio
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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2008, 06:38:28 pm »

I was thinking of mic'ing my amp up but all I have is a USB headset and while that's fine for recording ideas, it's not so good for much else.

Will have to wait on some bucks before I carry on with this.

Maybe I can come to CT with my laptop and you can show me how to work this stuff.  Then I can post videos here for everyone else.

I think affordable recording solutions are very much in demand.
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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2008, 06:40:24 pm »

Thanks Rene Smiley  I've tried everything I know to try in Linux as far as changing input levels is concerned but none of it worked.

I'm not entering GI 2008 any more.  I don't want to stress myself trying to record something for tomorrow when I have so much work to do as it is Tongue
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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2008, 07:17:38 pm »

I was thinking of mic'ing my amp up but all I have is a USB headset and while that's fine for recording ideas, it's not so good for much else.

I may have an old Shure 515SD (similar to a SM57) somewhere. I was saving it for a good cause (but you'll do ;D). Only thing is I can't remember seeing it for a few years, so no promises. I'll check to see if I can find it and let you know.
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« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2008, 08:40:55 pm »

Man that would kick ass!  I'll hold thumbs that it pops up somewhere ;D
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« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2008, 07:43:03 pm »

OK, found the soundcard I'll be using for this project.  See the "soundcards" topic to see how I found it. (Thanks Mr M!)



Should cost between R300 and R400 and give "good enough" results.  Definitely compatible with Linux.  And so the fun begins Smiley Smiley Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2008, 07:23:09 pm »

"Upgrading" from Ubuntu to Ubuntu Studio...

Code:
sudo apt-get install ubuntustudio-desktop linux-image-2.6.24-19-rt

This upgrades to Ubuntu Studio and installs the real-time kernel, which is pretty important when you're recording.

I rebooted and found my wireless networking was stuffed and eventually found the answer...

Code:
sudo apt-get install linux-rt

This installs all the real-time kernel modules.  Don't fret (hehe) too much if you don't understand it.  Just do it Tongue
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« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2008, 07:30:05 pm »

Once you have Ubuntu Studio installed and working properly (remember to reboot after the above), check this link out for some help...

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio

I'll be posting my own progress here as I go along, but for this in a hurry, go ahead, check it out!
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« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2008, 10:21:51 am »

OK, so I have my cable but getting JACK running is proving to be a LOT more challenging than I had expected.  The plus side is that I now finally understand what the hell it does Tongue

JACK allows you to run a sort of patchbay where I can connect the output of a drum machine (hydrogen) and the output of guitar effects (jack-rack) into the input of a recording studio thingy (ardour).

There are a few ideas missing from the above but you get my drift.

Right now, I'm disappointed by the lack of documentation around recording in Linux.  If you have the "right hardware" it'll probably work out of the box.  The problem seems to come in when you're using a crappy onboard soundcard.  Which is the case for me.  Fun.
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« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2008, 11:18:13 pm »

OK!  I'm finally at a point where I know EXACTLY what I'm doing and need to do in order for this Linux-recording stuff to work.  I've learned a lot about sound-recording (in general) which I'm sure will be useful on any platform and also lots about how sound things best work in Linux.

A quick highlight of how things fit together and where the challenges lie...

jackd - This is an incredibly powerful piece of software which allows you to "patch" the output of one program (or physical source) into the input of another.  As described above, you can "plug" your guitar into your effects program, and then into a specific track on your recording software.  You can also "plug" a drum machine's output into another track and a synth program into a 3rd track.  (Hope I'm keeping count correctly Tongue)

Problems...

1.  INCREDIBLY hard to figure out the first time around.  I'm an advanced Linux user/admin, I'd hate to see what a newbie would go through trying to figure this all out!

2.  Only supports 1 card at a time.  Big problem.  This SoundTech LightSnake acts as a soundcard.  So, as things stand, I can only record from my cable, or playback something I've already recording.  Definitely no monitoring!  Huge pain in the ass.

Solution:  Alsa (soundcard drivers for linux) supports running 2 cards as 1 virtual card.  If I ever get my configuration right, this could work.  Although the cards won't be perfectly in-sync, it should be good enough to monitor what I'm playing as I'm recording.

Other than the above issues, I actually love jackd.  Powerful bit of software ONCE you figure out all the kinks.  (This tends to be the case with Linux software in the beginning.  Things usually smooth out once the software gets a bit more mainstream usage.)

ardour - Fantastic recording software!  It's modeled on professional software available out there and it confuses the heck out of me but not because it's badly designed, just because i'm new to recording.  I finally understand how it works and it's quite powerful.  Has nice features like a Click Track and, erm, other stuff I don't understand yet Tongue

Can definitely see myself falling in love with this software.  I could use something simple like Audacity (and I may yet) but I'd like to see if I can manage with something more pro-orientated.  I figure it will be good practise for when I'm working on industry-standard software, later on.

hydrogen - Groovy drum machine.  Very easy to use.  You create "patterns", which are generally single bars of drumming.  And then you string them together to form a "song".  Very easy to use.  You can click with your mouse or use your keyboard.  Sounds are very good.  Very authentic, to my untrained ears anyway.

ZynAddSubFX - Virtual synth keyboard goodie.  Very cool.  Plenty of stuff available in the instrument bank.  I can see myself creating great backing tracks with this baby.  Some of the sounds are very authentic while others are absolute rubbish.  No idea, yet, if it supports instrument-bank files available on the net.  Will investigate as time moves on.

Jack Rack - Supposed to be a real-time guitar effects (stack-like) program.  Haven't had a chance to test it out yet, thanks to my above issues with jackd.  Seems to have a wide range of sounds and tweaking available.  Time will tell how good this is.  User-interface is crap.

Creox - More or less same thing as Jack Rack but much less versatile.  I've actually played with this one before but couldn't get decent performance out of it -- this was before I set up my machine to run with a real-time kernel and before I understood anything about jackd.  Will post more after I test this properly.

That pretty much covers everything you'd use in the beginning when recording on Linux.  I'll post more once I can actually record and monitor what I'm recording.  Will also post links to sites that have been helpful.

Comments on the above?
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« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2008, 11:34:59 pm »

Rakarrack - The new kid on the block.  Haven't played with but Francis posted about it a while ago and I totally forgot about it!.  Will play as soon as jackd + alsa + my virtual card are playing nicely together Wink  http://rakarrack.sourceforge.net/
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« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2008, 12:27:44 am »

I hear the Micro$loth is going to stop selling XP this year - So I'm saving this threat for when I migrate to Ubuntu, because I sure as hell never going to use Vista to do music again.
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René Avenant
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