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Author Topic: Ramirez classical guitars ....  (Read 1903 times)
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Keira WitherKay
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« on: February 04, 2010, 08:16:45 am »

hi ya all, yesterday , i had some time to kill and popped in at lovemore music in Irene /centurion .... (jhb) they the importers of ramirez guitars . so true to being the importers they have a wide range of ramirez guitars on the floor to try.... they range from 15 k upward and i mean upward ....

i tried out 1st the  model number i forget but it was marked at 30 K  .... that was most expensive they had on the floor........ truly i didn't like it ....

it was beautifully made but lacked something .........

then i tried the 125 anniversary model ...which is being made for only the next 5 years to celebrate the ramirez name being in guitar production for 125 yrs an amazing feat .........

now this guitar was magic..........

apparantly designed by amalia rameriz(yes a woman now runs the company )   based on their E model.....  with all solid wood construction .the one i played had a cedar top and sounded and felt great .......

more a flamenco sound to a classical one for those of you that know the difference...... but still not a full flamenco guitar which can be quite nasaly and harsh ....

it had a very interesting ring to the bass strings......... i kept trying to listen to that timbre and try to remember it ... cos it was quite unique ...... and i liked the bass overtones that one heard after striking the string........ definitely the kinda magic one dips into your pocket for.......

this was only marked at 23K and with a discount i was offered it for 16.5K   i had my credit card with me and i seriously pondered it .......... but resisted.......

and dashed home to play my guitars while the other sound and feel was fresh in my head...and i was not dissapointed my vintage yamaha's sounded NOT the same but i never felt i was now playing an inferior guitar ...

however that said i was suitably impressed with the 125 yr anniverasy model........ from Ramirez  .......and this is still not their absolute top end professional series guitars....... they did not have any in stock ....they ussually start at about 40 K up ..and this is the range that is all handbuilt by artisans in a separate workshop at Ramirez .... kinda a custom shop like fender has....  but unfortunately none of them in stock......

so yeah if you into nylon strings and have a budget check out the ramirez range ,,,

lovemore music has about 3 branch's around gauteng and the guy there said they the importers...

they truly guitars that offer a hint more than the ussual builds i have tried in last years.....

but like i mentioned i 'm not saying they all good the 1st one i played on i didn't like at all....

but then i was blown away enough to consider parting with what for me is a substantial amount of money .......

guess i'll trawl the pawn shops and 2nd hand market for one going for 7-10 K  heheheh then it would be an awesome value for money deal ...

cos they all made in spain ...... and the name ramirez has become an industry standard name in classical/flamenco world.......
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Bokvet
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« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2010, 09:47:58 am »

I had a go on a 13G's at the Illovo branch and it was nice but hell there was a yamaha at half the price just as nice. And the R was a student instrument. I find the guys at Lovemore's pretty accommodating. they order strings for me that I cant find anywhere, that was Melody at the Irene branch. They have braches in Brixton, Illovo, Irene and Bokosburg. They maintain that they are the biggest mover of yamaha gear in SA. But these Ramirez guitars, plse tell me, they are also factory made stuff and how would they compare, both quality and price, with something hand made by a luthier? Seems pretty steep for factory made kit or do I miss something?
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X-rated Bob
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« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2010, 10:08:07 am »

I played a Ramirez 6-string recently. Not at the top of their food chain, but not a student's model either. Way cool guitar, lovely tone. I am not big on nylon string guitars, but I had a dose of GAS for a while after playing this one. It was 2nd hand, sticker said 12K and there was probably some bargaining room built into that price.

Somebody else bought it. Hey presto! No more GAS.
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X-rated Bob
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« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2010, 10:17:04 am »

But these Ramirez guitars, plse tell me, they are also factory made stuff and how would they compare, both quality and price, with something hand made by a luthier? Seems pretty steep for factory made kit or do I miss something?
Lots of guitars are made on production lines - some very good guitars as well. Most Martins, the entire Larrivee standard range.

I think the "factory" "hand-made" divide is a bit fuzzy. Larrivee are "factory made" but the necks, on all their models, are hand fitted. Morgan, AFAIK, do most of the construction work by hand but then send the guitars to the Larrivee production line for spraying and finishing.

Martin make so many guitars they can't afford (in terms of time or money) to have them hand made. And this has been going on for some time. I recently learned that there were a whole bunch of Martin dreadnoughts in the early 70s with bum intonation because the bridges were 3mm forward of where they should have been. Somebody set up something wrong on the production line.

I would think that with the exception of the smallest shops there are not a lot of entirely hand made guitars. Even companies like Lowden where most if not all the work is done by hand have production lines with different craftsmen responsible for specific parts of the construction - EG one to do the finishes, one to shape the necks.

So is it hand made or factory made? Chose your definition  Cheesy
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Conrad
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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2010, 10:21:03 am »

I was looking at the only Ramirez flamenco student model but it's $3000k!!

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Conrad "Conkie" Pienaar
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Keira WitherKay
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« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2010, 10:34:25 am »

But these Ramirez guitars, plse tell me, they are also factory made stuff and how would they compare, both quality and price, with something hand made by a luthier? Seems pretty steep for factory made kit or do I miss something?

well the thing is the student models are designed and quality controlled by the main ramirez factory but i believe the construction or certain stages of it are farmed out to other spanish luthiers and small guitar companies...... so still made in spain....... but when you get higher up in the models they are made exclusively in the "artisan" workshop which is the custom shop of ramirez.... where each model is  personally checked and signed by amalia ramirez who is the current family member running the company....

so in answer to your question...if you buying the top end models you are getting handmade personally quality controlled models....... so equivalent to a luthier...and you can even place special orders which they will build for you ...at a price of course....... but even the lower student models are good..... and respected.... buying their lower range is like buying say a made in US strat or gibson.... but their upper range is the equivalent of a luthier/custom shop build........... and yeah they pretty much top of the tree when you buying a classical...... and truly anyone who is not on the international classical guitar concert circuit ...to them a ramirez evena cheaper one would be pretty much as good as one can get .......

and yes always compare the yamaha's cos there are some awesome sounding ones and they too have a custom shop  who turn out guitars on a par with the top luthiers....... it's the GC series.... the production line is the CG series.....

but in my humble experience since classical guitars are so reliant on thier natural tone ...as we never alter them with effects ect ... the greatest test is just to listen to the guitar ... and how it responds..... if it is the sound you love buy it whether it's yamaha/Ramirez or some unknown name..... classical  guitars are quite unique beasts all of them.......   
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Keira WitherKay
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« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2010, 10:40:12 am »

I was looking at the only Ramirez flamenco student model but it's $3000k!!



 yep Conrad thats normal pricing for a student model ..... that equates to about R23000 - R28000 give or take a customs duty or two ...... even the 125 aniversary model is considered a student model......... although i do recall reading somewhere that they did produce just 125 of the aniversary "special" top of the line models that i saw for some ridiculous price like almost 100K but i gues they will be collectors items.... but the aniversary models you see at lovemore and on stores online are all student model quality ........

but conrad that one at lovemore at irene the 125 yr anniversary one  sounded great ...have you checked that out ... marked at 23K and with a discount for cash got quoted R16500  which is a good price i would think .....

 
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Conrad
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« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2010, 11:11:41 am »

I was looking at the only Ramirez flamenco student model but it's $3000k!!

yep Conrad thats normal pricing for a student model ..... that equates to about R23000 - R28000 give or take a customs duty or two ...... even the 125 aniversary model is considered a student model......... although i do recall reading somewhere that they did produce just 125 of the aniversary "special" top of the line models that i saw for some ridiculous price like almost 100K but i gues they will be collectors items.... but the aniversary models you see at lovemore and on stores online are all student model quality ........

but conrad that one at lovemore at irene the 125 yr anniversary one  sounded great ...have you checked that out ... marked at 23K and with a discount for cash got quoted R16500  which is a good price i would think .....

I should be in that area later today then I'll pop in but I am specifically looking for a Flamenco model, or is this a flemenco model?

I played a Mervyn Davis Smoothtalker nylon string last night for about 30 minutes. It has incredible attack. The intonation is near perfect to the human ear and the action is fantastic. I'll just have to seriously adapt my percusssion technique if I am to do any percussion at all on that guitar.

So far I have compared Ramirez, Manuel Rodrigues and Alhambra. The best reviews go to Ramirez & Alhambra and the best prices are with Alhambra and Manuel Rodrigues so I am now really investigating my options with Alhambra.
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Conrad "Conkie" Pienaar
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